Thursday, January 10, 2013

Fwd: שאלה בענין יוחסין



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: הפצה <hafaza00@gmail.com>
Date: 2013/1/6
Subject: Re: שאלה בענין יוחסין
To: RCK <yeshivish@gmail.com>


איני יודע, רק כך שמע אבי זצ"ל מזקינו. - לא אופתע אם רק בן בנו של הט"ז היה הראשון. אבל בפירוש שמעתי 'בן הט"ז'.

From: RCK
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: שאלה בענין יוחסין

באיזה בן של הט"ז?

2013/1/5 הפצה <hafaza00@gmail.com>
בעקרון הקונטרס הנ"ס כתב בני על פי מ"ש זקני ר' מנחם וייס בשער והקדמת ה'עמודי אש לבית יוסף', תמצאם באוצר החכמה. את הידיעה שאביו היה ר' אברהם כמדומני הוציא מנוסח מצבה, אברר אצלו בהמשך. בכל אופן כיום לא ידוע סדר הדורות, אבל מקובל אצלנו שבנו של הט"ז כבר היה אב"ד דומברבה, וממנו עברה המשרה דור אחר דור.

From: RCK
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 9:42 PM
Subject: שאלה בענין יוחסין

לכבוד הרב שליט"א


הנני עוסק כעת במחקרי היוחסין של המשפחה שלי. אני נמנה מבני בניו של הרה"ג ראובן חיים קליין זצ"ל אבד"ק דווידקאפף ובעל מחה"ס שנות חיים על רבינו ירוחם. אביו שלו היה הרב בנימין אליעזר אונגער-אויערבאך חתנו של רבי יעקב הלוי סג"ל אבד"ק וואלברום ולאחר מכן ראב"ד בקראקא. הוא ואחיו הרב יוסף חריף (מח"ס עמודי אש לבית יוסף) היו מבני הרב צבי הירש הלוי אב"ד דאמבראווא שהיה בן אחר בן לבעל הט"ז. שם משפחת הרב צבי הירש הנ"ל נקרא ג"כ לייציס וגם לעבענהיים וגם שטערן וגם ליכטיג (ואיני ידוע היאך ליישב כל זה). והנה ראיתי באמצעות אוצר החכמה בקונטרס גזע קודש (שחיבר בנך ונמצא בסוף הספר ברכת אברהם על המועדים) עמוד ז' שמביא שאביו של הרב צבי הירש שטערן היה הרב אברהם סג"ל אב"ד דאמבראווא שהיה בן אחר בן לבעל הט"ז.


האמנם חוקר אחר שלח לי אילן יוחסין שהוא ערך ובו כתוב ששם אביו של הרב צבי הירש היה הרב דוד הלוי סג"ל שטערן. והנה מצאתי שהרב דוד שטערן היה בנו של הרב שמואל הלוי סג"ל שטיינברג בנו של בעל הט"ז וחתנו של הרב שמשון מאוסטרפולי (ע' בקובץ ישורון גליון י"ח עמ' תתמ"ד). ולכאורה אותו חקור טעה בזה ודילג כמה דורות בין הרב צבי הירש הלוי עד הרב דוד שטערן ויתכן שבין הדורות נמצא הרב אברהם סג"ל.


על כן אני שואל ממך האם ידוע לך או למישהו אחר בדיוק סדר הדורות מזקנינו הרב צבי הירש עד בעל הט"ז ושמות האנשים שביניהם?


ואיידי דמיירי ביה אעלה על במתי השאלה ג"כ האם ידוע לך סדר הדורות מהרב צבי הירש עד בעל מחבר הספר בית שמואל (בונטרס הנ"ל עמ' ח' נקט שהוא היה נכד להבית שמואל אבל לא פירט איך)? וגם שם מפרש שהרב צבי הירש היה נכד של בעל המשאת בנימין אבל לא פירט סדר הדורות האם זה ידוע? וגם בהקדמה לספר שנות חיים כתוב שהוא היה מצאצאי הרמ"א האם זהו ע"י זקנו הרב צבי הירש והאם ידוע קו היוחסין?


ראובן חיים קליין

ביתר עילית



Wednesday, January 09, 2013

Re: genealogy questions

'Shkoiyach for your response. I attached the selection in Rabbi Gartenhaus' sefer about this story.

Where did you get your information about the exact names between the Shenos Chaim and the TaZ? I have the same account in my notes (which I think I got from R Eliezer Klein from Lakewood, a grandson of Reuven Chaim Klein about whom there was a Mishpacha article a few years back). But I found on Otzar HaChochma a slightly different account, see the other attachment. I was thinking maybe that they aren't arguing but that there is a name missing from our listing and that really reb tzvi hirsch stern's father reb avrohom halevi stern who was a son of rav dovid stern who was a son of reb shmuel halevi (who, by the way, was a son-in-law of reb shimshon of ostropoli and died al kiddush hashem ע' קובץ ישורון גליון י"ח עמ' תתמ"ד). I am trying to ask a few people about this to answer up the stira (I am in touch with the author of that sefer's father who is a rov in bene baraq and there is someone in my chabura who might be able to get me some more information about this line...)

Also, it is interesting to note that what Klilas Yofi (on pg. 60 in my print) says about Reb Yakov Stern that he was rov in wolbrom and then in krakow is also mentioned by the Chasam Sofer himself in Teshuvos Chasam Sofer Chadashos, Yoreh Deah Siman 17. 

Who was this Charna that was married to Reb Binyamin Eliezer Klein? Who were her parents? Do you have any pictures from Reb Binyamin Eliezer Klein (and his wife)'s tombstone in Szolyva? I found a guy who is willing to go to Szolyva to take pictures of the kevorim there, but he would charge $100 to do so.

I am note sure what you meant when you wrote "I don't know which Reuven Chaim you are, but the older one who is married to Chava, his mother Freida Rivka comes from the brother of the Rema, Eliezer." 

Via Google, I learned that last year you left BMG to become a rov in Denver. It seems to me that we probably overlapped at our time in BMG. I used to learn in the Chabura of Reb Aryeh Leib Paretzky and then later in the Chabura of Reb Sruli Newman (Kalman Krohn's eidim).

By the way, if you want you can join www.geni.com where our extended family tree is growing.




Kol Tuv,

Reuven Chaim Klein
Beitar Illit, Israel

On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 12:35 AM, Rabbi Steinberg <blessedeer@juno.com> wrote:
Dear R' Reuven Chaim,
I have not yet seen what Rav Gartenhaus wrote about Mendel Kalish. I do have a picture of his matzevah (attached). Did you know that he was niftar when he was 15! I never heard of ksavim from him, but I will look around.
Binyamin Eliezer's wife was Charna. (They lived in Svalyava). I do not know the order of the children of Binyamin Eliezer.
 
Yichus of Shnos Chaim:
Rav Reuven Chaim
son of Rav Binyamim Eliezer Unger Orbach
son-in law of Rav Yaakov Litzas (Av Bais Din Wohlbrum, Polin, Rav Krakow)
son of Rav Tzvi Hirsch segal Stern (called Reb Hershele Litzas Av Bais Din Dambrava near Trani, which is where he is buried, see sefer Klilas Yofi page 131.)
son of Rav Dovid segal Stern
son of Rav Shmuel (Av bais Din and Rosh Hayeshiva in Ferden.
son of Taz
 
We do not know how the Shnos Chaim came from the Rema, although we know he did.
 
I don't know which Reuven Chaim you are, but the older one who is married to Chava, his mother Freida Rivka comes from the brother of the Rema, Eliezer.
 
Kol Tuv,
Rabbi Tzvi Steinberg
Kahal Zera Avraham
1560 Winona Court
Denver, CO 80204
(o) 720-904-2406
 
 
 
On Mon, 7 Jan 2013 21:06:21 +0200 RCK <yeshivish@gmail.com> writes:
You never responded to this email.

RCK

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 8:41 PM, RCK <yeshivish@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks.


On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 8:26 PM, Steven Yurowitz <syurowitz@newmangreenberg.com> wrote:
Reuvain I am forwarding your email to Tzvi Steinberg he can answer all your questions.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE Webchaver protected smartphone


----- Reply message -----
From: "RCK" <yeshivish@gmail.com>
To: "eyuro@msn.com" <eyuro@msn.com>, "Steven Yurowitz" <syurowitz@newmangreenberg.com>
Subject: genealogy questions
Date: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 11:16 am



I was recently reading through Eshel Avorhom (from Rav Elazar Lipa Gartenhaus), he mentions the fascinating story of the child prodigy Menachem Mendel Kallisch. I was wondering if you have any more information about the story. It seems very interesting. Does anyone still have any of his writings? It is mentioned in the sefer that he drew foretelling the Nazi's conquering of Europe.

Also, I recently had my firstborn son. I named him after our common ancestor, Binyamin Eliezer Klein. Do we have any information about him? Who was his wife? And what was the birth order of his three children (my g-grandfather, Mordechai Klein, your gg-grandmother, Zissel Kallisch, and Pesel Mayer)?

Also, I probably asked you this before, but do you know exactly how the Shenos Chaim was a descendant of the TaZ and/or the Remah?

Kol Tuv,
Reuven Chaim Klein


 


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Thursday, January 03, 2013

Re: Klien family tree

You have closer relatives. Reb Hersch Ber had a son named Moshe Ezriel Klein and his son is reuven chaim klein about whom there was an article in mishpacha magazine, see http://www.mishpacha.com/Browse/Article/197/Articles-of-Faith i spoke to a grandson of this reuven chaim klein named eliezer klein (from lakewood) and he sent me a family tree that he made (attached to this email). There is guy named Osher Klein who is a rebbi in Yeshivas Birkas Yitzchok in Los Angeles who I beleive is also from Moshe Ezriel Klein's family. As you probably know, Reb Hersch Ber had a son named Reuven Chaim Klein who the Rov of Sznina and was the son-in-law of Reb Yishaya'le of Kerister, he wrote Mateh Reuven and was killed in the Holocaust without children.

I am a descendant of an older brother of Reb Hersch Ber whose name was R' Binyamin Eliezer Klein (he was named after the Shenos Chaim's father). 

Here is the link on Geni.com to your great-grandfather's profile: http://www.geni.com/people/Sholom-Yosef-Klein/6000000018908655093?through=6000000009307290291 I just created it right now. I would like to urge you to help fill in your family and get more people involved.

What else are you looking for?

Kol Tuv,
RCK

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 8:21 PM, R N <ruchinied@googlemail.com> wrote:
Thanks for the link on Geni, is there more on the Klien side? my father's grandfather was Shulem yosef Klien a son of Hersh Ber (Tzvi Dov) Klien who was the son of Reuven Chaim Klien..


On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 12:51 AM, RCK <yeshivish@gmail.com> wrote:
I haven't really worked on the family tree since around 2007, but if you go to http://kleinfamilygenealogy.blogspot.co.il/ you might be able to get an old copy of the family tree. If you tell me exactly how you are a descendant of the Shenos Chaim (and what your name is), I can add you to http://www.geni.com where you can find more information about the family and find other people who are also descendants of the Shenos Chaim. 

Here is my profile on Geni.com:

Here is the Shenos Chaim: 

If you have any more specific questions, I'd be glad to help you.out...

Kol Tuv,
RCK


On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 4:57 AM, R N <ruchinied@googlemail.com> wrote:
Hi, Please can you send me a copy of the klien family tree, as i am a descendent  of the R' Reuven Chaim Klien -munkatch

Many Thanks

RN



Tuesday, January 01, 2013

Re: Klien family tree

I haven't really worked on the family tree since around 2007, but if you go to http://kleinfamilygenealogy.blogspot.co.il/ you might be able to get an old copy of the family tree. If you tell me exactly how you are a descendant of the Shenos Chaim (and what your name is), I can add you to http://www.geni.com where you can find more information about the family and find other people who are also descendants of the Shenos Chaim. 

Here is my profile on Geni.com:

Here is the Shenos Chaim: 

If you have any more specific questions, I'd be glad to help you.out...

Kol Tuv,
RCK

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 4:57 AM, R N <ruchinied@googlemail.com> wrote:
Hi, Please can you send me a copy of the klien family tree, as i am a descendent  of the R' Reuven Chaim Klien -munkatch

Many Thanks

RN